Fringepedia:Ideas

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Special: Withering

Chat

There are two ways for two people to conduct what I would call a semi-private conversation. (If you want real privacy, use email.)

Because I think the result is more coherent, I suggest we adopt the second version as an admittedly non-enforceable convention. --Jim in Georgia 15:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Standard Quotes

Next topic... QUOTES. Seems like they are formatted differently from EP page to EP page... guilty as charged - as I have been trying different formats. Any suggestions (or favorites) for formatting. Personally, I don't think that they should overwhelm their subsection of the article... but - they should be clear and uniquely formatted. There should also be a standard to qualify... be it relevance to key plot points, or even humor. Thoughts? –DocH– my edits 19:22, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Page Names

We have five pages, not counting episode pages, that begin with the word "The." I'm responsible for at least three of them. They have become a pain because using them in text in the middle of a sentence requires an alias, e.g.: ...members of the [[The Team|Team]] were called to....

I propose dropping the article from the name of these pages. Wiki will create a REDIRECTs for us and we can do clean-ups at our convinience. While doing this, we should change the name of The Team to Science Team per Doc's recommendation. --Jim in Georgia 19:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good - I've been using "Oversight Committee" (reviewing files - commenting on new hires = oversight?) and "Science Team" (specifically in their PD?). I'll need to go back and 'clean-up' along those lines too. –DocH– my edits
I'd forgotten your comments on "Oversight Committee;" that one is not a problem with me.--Jim in Georgia 21:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
OK with me. Some comments. Other possible name for Science Team: Fringe Science Team. Oversight Committee is certainly better then a general name like Committee. I hesitate a bit on dropping the article in The Pattern as the 'The' is clearly part of the name in the show, more than just an article. --Labgo 01:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Good point on "The Pattern." When characters speak, you can almost here the capital letters. it's a title; we should probably keep it.--Jim in Georgia 01:58, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Agree on The Pattern. The Observer should be retained too. Broyles said that is what they had been calling him - see 1.04/trans = "The Observer". As for the science team, 95% of what they do is conventional science. The Fringe part of it is to go after the Fringe science cells associated with the Pattern. In context, the Science Team is, by default, the Fringe Science Team... until we get another team to diferrentiate them against. –DocH– my edits

Moves complete. As we discussed, I kept "The Pattern" and "The Observer." I went with "Science Team" as the new name for The Team, but I created a redirect of "Fringe Science Team" to point to the new page. "The Team" is also still out the as a redirect; it'll work at the beginning of a sentence.--Jim in Georgia 00:18, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Character Template

Inspired by Labgo (really), I've prototyped a landscape-oriented Infobox Character. The existing template is still in place; the proposed item may be found at Template:Test. There's an implementation at Jim in Georgia/sandbox#Projects. The dashes are there to force the discretionary items to show up. Please modify the entries at the implementation to see how it works (it's a SANDBOX, folks!) and comment on the template (it has a sysop lock on it). This thing also refers to "Seen in", above. I have removed date of birth and place of birth from the table; to my knowledge, we do not have that information from any canonical source. I've added status and remarks. "Status" has a lot of possible meanings and I think we'll settle in once we start using it. For example, I entered "Living" for Olivia, but maybe it should be abducted/missing. "Remarks is a potential minefield. I added it to allow us explain things like John Scott is dead -- kinda. Our original infoboxes were portrait oriented because the place we got them had portrait oriented boxes. I thing we need our own look.--Jim in Georgia 22:28, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

- Nice. Two things. One - the Pinker comment (see also) - I would drop that to the bottom of the 'Background' section... away from the 'About" header. Two, the first data column (profess, age, aka) is too wide and gobbles real estate - reduce by 30% and allow the center column to flourish without wrapping or < breaks >. –DocH– my edits 22:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. The Pinker comment is there (referenced) 'cause it's always been somewhere on the page. I'll hold the mod on the column width for a while; it's partly controlled by the Infobox row template that still supports the old format.--Jim in Georgia 01:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
- Sunday afternoons are potentially dangerous. I've added a new color to the background. Comments welcome. Technically, btw, the hex value for the new color was obtained by adding the difference between {{FringeMediumGreen}} and {{FringePaleGreen}} to {{FringeMediumGreen}} (yielding {{FringeDarkGreen}}?).--Jim in Georgia 20:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- Nice. By the way the images of main characters are not very realistic. They don't appear very natural, more like actor's promotional pictures in their specific role.--Labgo 22:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
-Good point on the images. I always though of them as a good starting point. We had earlier decided that Main images for all should be square, but that was all. If good high quality pictures are available use them. I'll formalize the new, darker green so it's available for various applications, and start moving the format into "production." There're a couple little nits to pick.--Jim in Georgia 22:17, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- The testplate pushes category Character (vice CharacterS). Does the infobox have to publish unused data points. Visually, showing only used data points is much more appealing. I hate seeing "death episode" below the lovely Olivia. [;^( - - –DocH– my edits 22:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thinking about the small screen user (800x600) the template runs way right. It doesn't fit until you get to 1068px width. The 140px left navbar, the 300px char-image with 25% of the table and then the data/160px actor-image with a guaranteed 75% of the table... makes for a BIG template on the small screen. –DocH– my edits

Episode & Transcript Shell

I modified the episode and transcript shells to match the latest version that we have been using. I made it so that it can be dropped on a page and the ACT links will work without modification. It seems to work. I tried it with "Ability". Let me know if I missed something or if you think it does not correspond to what we have been using.--Labgo 16:24, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

- Help Shells look about right to me. I know the glyphs are your pet project, but I still don't see any merit in listing "Opening Sequence - same as Pilot". If they changed (even once) then oui. As it is now - no merit. –DocH– my edits 18:19, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
- I don't mind striking the intro sequence glyph reference from the episode pages. Keeping the actual list in one place only (Pilot?) is likely enough. The only reason I had it there was not for its intrinsic value but for making it clear to people that the possibly interesting glyphs are NOT taken from the intro sequence. I still hope that cracking the variable sequence gets you a prize or something, perhaps a night out with Anna Torv or Mira Tzur... --Labgo 23:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
- Would an "Episode Glyphs" page make sense? I don't know if the sequence of the Glyphs means anything, but it would be neat if one user came up with a theory before they explain it on the shell.--Jim in Georgia 01:58, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- The advantage of the page approach is that you see all the glyphs at the same time. Perhaps easier to see a pattern.--Labgo 02:19, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- A night out with Torv OR Tzur? You sure know how to push my buttons. Make it a night out with Torv AND Tzur and I will personally drive to the Bad Robot offices in Burbank, California, and force a full "glyphs" confession from the creative staff. [8^) –DocH– my edits

DISAGREE: I retract my vote for Episode Shell. I just noticed that somewhere along the way == Synopsis == has managed to stay in the shell from Day One. When we were fixing the TOC problem, we had it so the TOC plunged as far down the left side as need be. Prologue, Act I, II, etc... could be penetrated to prevent any WhiteSpace across the top at all - the two level Synopsis prohibits it. We manually omitted it on a few pages, but they have since been restored (due diligence). If we want to keep the word Synopsis then we need to demote it to a three-level header. We can underline it for visual, or just delete it, but I'd like to kill the WhiteSpace in either case and satisfy the goal of the tailored TOC. –DocH– my edits 01:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

- Yes demoting to level 3 would do it. Although at this point I don't see when this problem was reintroduced after we solved it (we did solve this earlier, right?). I recently changed the episode shell to reflect the last episodes adopted format but since the shell is copied and pasted to pages this should not have introduced a problem in existing episode pages. Yet, early episodes show the big white gap.--Labgo 04:12, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Actually, you re-installed a few == Synopsis == right around 24 Dec 08, on the pages where they were trimmed. Not all Ep pages were trimmed though. Due diligence is a good thing. I thought we did solve this earlier - that's why I mentioned it. I am not sure if we will see SysopJim for a few days on this - tonight was LOST night and he may need a few days to recover. –DocH– my edits
- Whatever happened I agree we should get it back the way we had it, with no blanks.--Labgo 11:16, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm here! I concur on the no blanks. I specifically like the way The Transformation looks, so I pulled the Synopsis line out of The No-Brainer. Chapter I of 112 is interesting as a result. We would be constrained from using a Landscape image; that's okay.--Jim in Georgia 22:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I may have caused this recent problem... I was playing around with the Comic #2 page, and I changed the <H2> CSS to see if that would fix the layout. I just changed it back... see if that fixes the problem you are seeing... -- Dennis  Talk  Contribs  22:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- It is back to normal now, even with the Synopsis in place.--Labgo 23:24, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- I think that near the bottom of every episode we should show a snapshot of the observer as he is seen hidden. What do you think? --Jamboy 01:41, 10 April 2012 (MST)
- We already have a page that does that and each episode has a link to that page. Most of the time the Observer is irrelevant to the page so - nope. –DocH– my edits 01:49, 10 April 2012 (MST)

Shape Changer Names

I am moving the discussion about tracking and naming the Shape Changers. Here are a few proposals:

--Labgo 16:04, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

relocated from Talk:Momentum_Deferred#Shape Changer & Skull Guy Names
- IMDb doesn't have names for them yet. TV.Com is calling them "Hybrid" (Cross) and "Leader" (Roche). What if we call them Hybrid Soldier and Hybrid Leader. None have demonstrated shange-changing abilities yet, though we assume Hybrid Soldier can, as he has a conversion device. –DocH– my edits 01:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Naming alt Characters

Not sure if it is a good idea to have a page named by the nickname of a character (i.e. Walternate). This character's name is Walter Bishop. This brings us back to the discussion about naming alternate characters. Some possibilities:

  1. Create an "Alternate" name space so the page name remains the full character name but in the different name space (i.e. we would have Main:Walter Bishop and Alternate:Walter Bishop)
  2. Use a sub-page of the main character page (i.e. Walter Bishop and Walter Bishop/Alternate)
  3. Use a different page but add something standard to make a difference (i.e. Walter Bishop and Walter Bishop (alternate))
  4. Treat both characters on the same page, but in different section (i.e. One Walter Bishop page with a section for the alternate)

My preference would be number 2. "Alternate" in this case would mean from a different universe compared to the main entry. It would not point to one of the two universes in particular so we would not have to know the origin before entering a character the first time. For many characters, only the main entry would exists and could represent someone from either universes. So the Peter we know, for example, would still be the main Peter page even if he is from the alternate universe. It is the young Peter who died that would be on the Peter/Alternate page. --Labgo 23:55, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

- Agree on avoiding the nickname as primary. Have the nickname REDIR to the approp. naming.
We haven't really heard Walter Bishop (alt) speak, have we? Just his image in his lab.
All of the data on our grown/regular Peter Bishop page has to be transfered to Peter Bishop (alt) because that is who he is.
The regular Peter Bishop now becomes just a sick in bed that die is 7 minutes into one episode.
We have two Elizabeths (here/there), one Carla (here) and I think one Observer - he interfered there, but acted here - UNLESS there are two - but they share thinking telepathically. -- –DocH– my edits 01:31, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
- My point above is that we should not move what is now under Peter Bishop to an alternate subpage, the deceased Peter should be on the alternate subpage. For me the tag /Alternate in a subpage would simply mean a character originating in a different universe from the one identified on the main character page. So the first version of a character that is encountered is always entered on the main page, irrespective of its originating universe (we may in fact not know where the character comes from). If no other versions of this character are seen, then everything is status quo. If a second version of a character from another universe appears then a subpage is created for that character (such as Peter Bishop/Alternate). --Labgo 02:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
- Gotcha. Go for it. I was associating alt with universe, not with "not the primary we know". How would that work for Elizabeth? We had moderate doses of her in both universes in her only episode. –DocH– my edits 02:18, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
- Your point above about The Observer (he interfered there but acted here) seems to indicate that Observers are possibly not from either universes but can appear in any of them (the same Observer in two universes rather than a different version of an Observer in each). For Elizabeth, I guess the only important thing is that both are described, the order is not really important as long as we note in the text of the pages where the action is taking place (i.e. which universe). I think the subpages should be named "/Duplicate" instead of "/Alternate" so the word Alternate is reserved for when we are talking about the Alternate Universe (versus Our Universe). --Labgo 03:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
- If you want to develop your favorite Option (#2 above) with /Duplicate instead of /Alternate - do so. I support it. sidebar: Two Observers with one mind that don't crossover... or One Observer that acts in both universes? I don't know. -- –DocH– my edits 05:48, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
- At he last minute I opted for Instance instead of Duplicate. I think it is more accurate. I did three characters for now, I hope there are not too many inconsistencies. As an aside I replaced alternate universe by Parallel Universe in a few places to match our page by that name. --Labgo 00:49, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Standard Character Page

I'm a bit confused about this. I may be at lost with where to go and how to find the information or I was just lazy to look for it, but is there a "standardized character page layout" out there, where everyone can just copy and paste so they can start up if there's a new character? Also, I don't get the stubs. Some page got only this stub - example: Agent Kashner, while others got a "stub" with some information on them - example: Teresa Rusk. Whereas, some page got a table of contents - example: Sam Martin, while some doesn't have, example: Flora Meegar.
I'm proposing to get rid of the table of contents for characters which are not either main characters or doesn't have much information (this goes for deceased and who haven't appeared much). On the stub, do we just remove it if there's enough information in it? -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 11:19, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

- If you click Help on the sidebar you will get to a page which has these templates under the heading "Useful Templates and Formats - New Pages". You will find a number of shells for different types of new pages.If you wish, you can copy my script Labgo/Scripts/ShellHelper.js to your User:username/monobook.js page. This will add two buttons above your edit window: the first button Cshell.png adds a character shell to the edit box, the second button Ashell.png adds an actor shell. About the stubs, you can remove them when enough information is entered (this could be very little info for some characters). --Labgo 02:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Labgo is correct on all accts. You have the option on your PREFERENCES page - MISC tab - to select/deselect "Show table of contents (for pages with more than 3 headings)". Mine is selected, as an Admin, to ensure I see all aspects of the site. Stubs tags help us focus our spare time toward pages that need content. I prefer to force my TOC to the right, because that is where the scroll bar is (normally). The basic SHELL has more than three headers... so you get a TOC. Adjust your PREF page to your preferences. I pull unused headers when one-time characters obvious;y have no trivia, UAQs, background, etc... –DocH– my edits 05:13, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for the tip. I'm thinking of standardizing all the pages of characters this summer. Also, I was wondering if it is preferred to have a paragraph form for the "about" or bulleted form? -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 05:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Any combo is okay, as appropriate. A paragraph is conversational and descriptive... better for summarily addressing a topic, or only a few items. The bullet is a "LIST"... better for many items, and succinct narrative (less conversational). A combination works well on high content pages. Para 1 = Olivia Topic 1. Then Bullet A, B, C. Para. 2 = Olivia Topic 2. Then Bullet D, E, F. - –DocH– my edits 20:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Alternate Universe History

How about developing a timeline of history for the AU that would explain the differences between AU and the real (fictional?) universe? Probably it would cover only time since the middle of the 20th century, since the two universes must have been very similar up to then, since otherwise, everyone would be speaking Spanish or would look like chickens or something. --Machipongo 13:41, 16 March 2011 (MST)

- I would love to see an entire page that details the history of the alternate universe. Anyone feel like going there and getting one of their history books from the library. Unfortunately, they have only fed us tiny threads of info, none of it very specific. You have already prejudiced yourself in this matter - assuming mid-20th century divergence. The Lindbergh baby thing was before that... the currency thing had to be early 18-hundreds with the Jackson presidency... so - hard to nail down. Not to mention that the USofA is the only point of data... how about a world history? - for a more thorough comparison. I would like to see that too. I think that the AU page "broadly" addresses (lists) this already. No need to duplicate items in a separate subsection. - –DocH– my edits 12:46, 14 March 2011 (MST)
- Those are great points- I guess the first task would be to identify the point of divergence, which is not available in the canon yet. Or maybe there never was a divergence: the two universes were always maintained parallel but slightly different. I think the AU page would serve as the source of the data to write the "history", but it does not link the differences in a continuous narrative. --Machipongo 13:41, 16 March 2011 (MST)
- I think the "Butterfly Effect" would eliminate the possiblity that the universes never diverged. By now, the small differences would have cascaded into major differences. So the problem of identifying the point of divergence remains. Maybe we will need to communicate with J.J. Abrams to find out when the divergence occurred, unless he plans to reveal it in a future episode. --
- First, if I keep having to sign your name for you... I'll be creative with it. Until then sign your comments and theories, its a basic rule at FPedia. Second, this is not your thread. This is an idea page - for the overall website, conversations about topics like butterfly effect need to migrate to a more appropriate page. -- –DocH– my edits 13:09, 16 March 2011 (MST)
- Just figured out how to sign:--Machipongo 13:41, 16 March 2011 (MST)
- Parallel Universe Theories -- –DocH– my edits 21:12, 16 March 2011 (MST)

More Proposals

- Our Book page cover that. The mock covers mean nothing. They were artwork hanging on a wall. No way to know if they actually have those comic Books over there, or that they are formatted that way.. since they never showed us a comic book from over there.
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