Talk:Brown Betty

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Talk	Brown Betty	Theories

Contents 1 Snippets 2 Unusual 3 The Implication of the Story 4 The Game Operation 5 The Heart 6 UAQ 7 Gemini - Zodiac 8 Songs? 9 47 - Recurring Theme? 10 Interesting Anachronisms 11 Continuity Error? 12 Prop Info

Snippets

TV Rage has teaser texts for the next few episodes They seem to be released from FOX for use in TV Guides etc. Here's the one for this Episode

"While Walter deals with some very upsetting news, he tells Olivia’s niece, Ella a fairy tale that includes musical performances by Olivia and Agent Broyles".

Seems that I can't edit the article, so maybe someone with write access wants to paste the snippets into the corresponding episode articles. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fn0rd‎ (talk • contribs) .

- Thanx. We have it covered. If you look just to the left of the text here, you will see a sidebar with a "portals" window and "Episodes" link that takes you to Portal:Episode Guide. There you will find the episode snippet you suggested. FOX PR releases the snippets and we see them when TV Rage and all of the other venues see them. Sometimes we clean and polish them up a bit to avoid violating our Spoiler Policy. We create the Episode page when FOX officially releases the title in a press release. After the page is formatted, it gets a write-lock on it that auto releases once the show starts airing in Eastern North America. No need to add to it beforehand, since the page was intended to represent what was seen on-air. -- –DocH– my edits 19:17, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Unusual

I am speechless... --LabGo 02:06, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- Yes. Where did the footage of Nimoy come from - I would assume it's from an old movie or show that he did, dubbed over? The other thing I liked (I think) is that the story in this episode alone had as many holes as the normal storyline. --Aswvwl21 02:23, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- Agree on the wonderful liberty they took, the latitude. Great story telling... from Walter's stoned mind. Ella was a star. Astrid can sing. The Bell vid is more of a CGI avatar than footage... they just laid a few filters over the top of his live-cam'ness. –DocH– my edits 02:41, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- Does anyone wonder if there were more songs in the original cut? They hyped it up to be such a musical episode and really didn't deliver.--Aswvwl21 16:27, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

The Implication of the Story

I wonder how much "truth" or "foreshadowing" in the story of Walter to Ella. The Observers working with Nina Sharp? Was it just for the sake of storytelling? Would this be placed as UAQ? -- Xerophytes _{Talk | Contribs} 06:29, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- Truth - yes (maybe in Walter's mind). Foreshadowing - probably not. "The Boy" is important to the Observers, but Fictional Peter was not important to the Watchers. They took his heart and was going to die. Peter was expendable in the tale... but seems to be invaluable in real-life. –DocH– my edits 09:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- It's clear that Walter has a unique perspective of the world. Do the representations of the characters from Walter's drug-induced fantasy have any bearing on Walter's perception of them when lucid?

- Why does Walter envision himself in a wheelchair?

- Why is Astrid leaving Olivia as an "employer"?

- Why is Nina Sharp a villian in the story? --Aswvwl21 20:20, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

- Is Nina's and Bell's implied relationship have anything to do with their relationship in real life? For example, if Nina is Peter's mother (with Walter), is it possible that one reason of Bell's & Walter's real life strained relationship had to do with Nina and Bell getting together, provoking jealousy? --Aswvwl21 20:25, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

- That's the thing. Could we based this "fantasy story" in the UAQ? I still think it can go to UAQ by just asking "what's the implication of the story" or something like that. -- Xerophytes _{Talk | Contribs} 23:14, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

- I agree. A legitimate question would be to ask how much of this fantasy story was inspired from reality. The issue then becomes the interpretation of the various metaphors found in the story as a first degree interpretation is likely to be wrong. --LabGo 23:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

The Game Operation

This game appeared again. I wonder if we are going to do a count of this or put it in the page. It appeared in Johari Window and The No-Brainer. -- Xerophytes _{Talk | Contribs} 06:29, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- Concur. Already added. I thought there was a fourth time we saw the game - but no. –DocH– my edits 09:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

The Heart

It's so obvious that it is inspired from Tin Man of Wizard of Oz. I don't know if I should include it in the page or not. Cultural References? Same with other stuffs like the beacon, episode reference? Those things were not mention in the episode, so I'm not particularly sure if it is a reference or not. -- Xerophytes _{Talk | Contribs} 06:29, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- No, I don't think it is at all. TinMan was "you had a heart the whole time" - this was "sharing a heart". TinMan never had any of the challenges of the heart Walter put forth in this. –DocH– my edits 09:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- The heart was a reference to the game Operation. Walter is having a hard time removing the Broken Heart earlier in the episode, with much buzzing from the game and protestation from Ella. -- Rpdrake 05:18, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

UAQ

• What was the warning by the Observer that Walter did not remember?

- He specifically warned Walter in Peter... The boy is important. He has to live. That mirrors the boy is important from this ep. –DocH– my edits 10:35, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- I am not 100% sure of that. Walter certainly knows that the boy is important and that he has to live. Why would The Observer worry about Walter not remembering that? He may be talking specifically about something Walter recalled while under the influence of the drug but now does not remember. In The Cure Walter said: "Opium. Fantastic stuff. Of course I forgot it as soon as I woke up". Could it instead be related to what the fictional Observer said to Olivia in the tale:

FICTIONAL OBSERVER: Drop what you're investigating.

FICTIONAL OBSERVER: I'm the man who doesn't let his feelings get him into trouble.

FICTIONAL OBSERVER: Don't stick your heart out where it doesn't belong.

--LabGo 16:06, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

- ???? How, in any way, shape or form, is the real Observer not talking on his communication device about real events? The dialogue above only took place in Walter's fictional tale to an 8 yr-old girl. –DocH– my edits 19:14, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

- I have no idea but this would not surprise me. Perhaps the drug opens up Walter's mind, allowing him to be influenced by the Observer. Who knows? --LabGo 19:27, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

- Did Walter actually forgot that Peter is important and he has to live? I took it as a different warning that we haven't heard of. I don't know. -- Xerophytes _{Talk | Contribs} 20:08, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

- I don't think he forgot at all. Four episodes ago he told Olivia about the warning (The Boy) the Observer gave him after they were pulled from the freezing lake in 1985. This episode, he told Ella about Bell and his concern for The Boy... so in just 28 days, he has twice incorporated the importance of The Boy in two separate narratives to different people. The Observer is obviously unaware that Walter clearly remembers the importance of Peter, but, since Peter is missing, he has to call in his concerns to the boss. –DocH– my edits 00:20, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I believe that the warning referred to here has not been depicted on the show yet. After all Peter left he isn't dead or in any more danger then he was when he was with Walter, the observer seems to be concerned that peter left fringe division meaning it could be something he told Walter during the two more recent meetings between him and Walter. After all he seemed to have no issue with Peter running off when Walter was committed. 14:41, 8 May 2010 (EDT)

- As shown in Over There, Part 1 the warning that Walter had forgotten was to never let Peter return to the other side.--LabGo 00:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Gemini - Zodiac

I was thinking about the Watchers in Walter's story. Nina confirms that there are more of them. She also refers to the Observer (September) as Gemini. Did anyone else find this interesting? I say this because, as of now, we have never seen any more than, what, 5 Observers? With their names corresponding to months of the year, does that suggest that there is only twelve of them? Since the Watcher was called Gemini (one of 12 zodiac signs), I think the show might be trying to tell us that there are only twelve of them. I'm not saying it as fact, but I'm finding more evidence to support it than not. --   The Atomic Mystro    talk    contribs   14:32, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- The first I thought was "oh, Zodiac signs instead of months, kewl". But as far as "Nina" saying there are more of them... Does NOT count. Everything was fabricated by Walter - while he was STONED. Sure he bent and twisted and cut and pasted scraps of truth into his saga. But he could have weaved common misperceptions into it too. True? or False? 1) MassDyn is evil? 2) Nina loves Bell? 3) Observers are corporate thugs? No. Walter has been locked-up for most of the past 2 decades. His stoned fascinations aren't admisssable in the court of Fringepedia. –DocH– my edits 22:29, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- Does the name Gemini have anything to do with the fact that that is the Zodiac symbol for twin? Are there two observers in each universe, identical to one another? Or does the "twin" part refer to there being more than one observer. --Aswvwl21 20:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

- You are applying the name of one Watcher to the all of the other ones. (?) If there are 11 others with Zodiac names, what does Mr. Scorpio mean? Mr. Aries? etc... Do their Zodiac characteristics apply to the other 11 Watchers? Are there Mr. Cancers 'in each universe identical to one another? –DocH– my edits 00:28, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

- "The Watchers" is an interesting reference. There are articles referring to a group of fallen angels called Grigori, "the Watchers" or "Sentinels". The Book of Enoch say that they were dispatched on Earth to watch over people.Here is an interesting extract from such an article : "In some Witchcraft and Wiccan systems the Watchers are beings who guard portals that link worlds together. Within such systems they are viewed as a spiritual race, a set of deities, or as spirits of the four elements. The Watchers are associated with the four quarters of north, east, south, and west. In some Traditions the Watchers are associated with the four elements of earth, air, fire, and water. They are also linked to each solstice and equinox, as well as to a specific star." --LabGo 15:13, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

- Good point about the zodiac alignment with the seasons and not the calendar year (solstice → 3 zodiac signs → equinox → 3 zodiac signs → solstice → 3 zodiac signs → equinox → 3 zodiac signs → repeat). -- –DocH– my edits 19:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Songs?

I'm wondering if the songs that were chosen for the episode have any relevance? Did some checking on when they were recorded/released - and the dates seem to all have 1971 and 1985 in common? Just a thought... I can't recall if these years are relevant or not?
"The Low Spark of High Healed Boys" released 1971; "Roundabout" realeased 1971; "The Candy Man" released 1971; "For Once in My Life" released 1967 - but was covered by John Farnham in 1971; "Blue Moon", orig released in 1935 - but was covered ALOT - Sha Na Na covered in 1971; "Head Over Heals" released 1985; "I Hope I Get It" from 'A Chorus Line', orig play in 1975 - but the film was released in 1985; "Freddie Freeloader", released in 1959 - but was covered by Stanley Jordan in 1985. Artcaren

- I've got nothing on 1971. There may be something in the 'Fringe Comics' about '71 though. 1985 is when Peter dies and Walter get the replacement. He could be Head Over Heels that he saved one of them. I think the songs were chosen mostly as a mirror to the character's mood. Candy Man = Walter The Stoner = his love of sweets, treats and diner fare. –DocH– my edits 23:56, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

- I like to think that 'Candy Man' is a reference back to Willie Wonka himself - a very 'off center' inventor - AND a lover of sweets.

I thought 1985 was the year of the Peter incident - thanks for confirming that. But - I think 1971 will work into things somehow. Also - as a side note - I'm a 'Lost' fan also. The Willie Wonka reference was in the lost preview at the end a couple of weeks ago. Now we have the Willie Wonka in Fringe. A bit of fun for fans of both shows. Thanks for the reply... Artcaren

- Sign your name. You should have a bar of 11 edit buttons above the edit window. #10 - second from the right - will sign/date your entry wherever your cursor is resting. Candy Man was not associated with the book - which is much better than the movie. Candy Man also means "An unethical doctor who prescribes excessive quantities of pills/medicine for patients to abuse/resell" and Candy Man means "illegal drug dealer that sells from home." I think most of us are LOST fans here. –DocH– my edits 22:41, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

-Will do. Yes - I forgot about the 'drug dealer' reference for Candy Man. Since Walter and Bell were giving children drugs - this makes total sense.--Artcaren 23:09, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

47 - Recurring Theme?

Nina Sharp's parking number is 47. Isn't 47 a recurring number of Fringe too? -- Xerophytes _{Talk | Contribs} 23:12, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

- It has been mentioned several times (so have many others), but never in association with Nina or Parking. So there is no "theme" other than the number itself... and they haven't assigned ANY significance, or potential importance to the number. Maybe someday if/when they give it a value in the plot. –DocH– my edits 00:07, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Interesting Anachronisms

There were a number of interesting anachronisms, which I assume were intentional. The production design team must have had fun with this one: - Cell phones and car phones, even though the setting was some time in the 1930-1950 time frame. - The large handset telephone on Nina's desk, right next to a modern flat-screen computer.

-—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spikebrennan (talk • contribs) .

Continuity Error?

Towards the end of the episode, Peter's toothpick switches from the left to the right side after he and Olivia retrieve his heart. It seems I can't edit the page, so perhaps someone may wish to add this little error if they see it fit. Amira 22:49, 2 January 2011 (MST)

- I reviewed it and it is well qualified. (it is a wood matchstick btw) - –DocH– my edits

- Images here and here. - –DocH– my edits 01:28, 6 January 2011 (MST)

Another error

In the start of the scene with the singing corpses, at around 16-th minute, there is a device visible on the table in middle of screen that has blue glowing and moving tubes (possibly a CGI effect), but moments later when the same angle is shown again, it is missing (CGI effect is not added).
Also at 23min Olivia breaks the car back lantern in closeup, but when next the wide view is shown, the debris of the plastic is missing on ground.
At 26min Olivia calls on mobile phone from the box in water, but her phone was destroyed previously by Watcher at 19min. Did she got new phone somewhere?
Of course actually nothing in this episode is important or noteworthy to nitpick, as it is all a story made up by Walter.
Also noteworthy, the exterior views of the house where Walter and Peter lived in season 2, visible in this episode at 27,5 minute and 41min, have been used in many-many TV series (for example in "Dead Like Me"), different takes but nevertheless at the same location showing the same building. It is probably in Vancouver where a lot of TV series are filmed. --Asd 12:08, 16 October 2011 (MST)

- On DVD at 16:40 minutes - there. at 16:58 - not there. On the table between Walter's head and Gene's left rear haunch. Not CGI, just a stylish flourescent lamp. The tubes rotate and seemingly to intermesh. The tubes also refract light to make different colors as it rotates, or your view of it changes. There are several of these around the lab and are visibly operating. My bet is that there is only one and they move it to key shots, but Props, or the 1AD, messed-up and the lamp was added late, or pulled because it wasn't supposed to be there. It is sitting in a large clear square container. The large colorful cylinder next to it has also changed. The trick with this episode is that Walter is telling a story to Ella. Is it a continuity problem when something is different half a minute later, or is Walter just changing/adjusting his narrative description for Ella. Which he does constantly already. -- –DocH– my edits 13:20, 16 October 2011 (MST)

Prop Info

A little pointless, but the pistols used by the Observers (erm, Watchers) appear to be props used in Sci Fi's "Battlestar Galactica" reimagined miniseries. If you guys think it's important, feel free to look it up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pandekage (talk • contribs) .

- More to the point... the pistols only existed in Walter's mind - as he was telling a drug-induced story to a young girl. Did he verbally describe the weapons to her? Or was he just visualizing the weapons as he told the rest of the narrative to Ella? Either way, Walter may have been watching BSG at some point since his release from St Claire's, stoned and/or sober as he did so. I compared the pistols. The undercarriage below the barrel appears similar, sort of boxy, but the barrel assembly on the Observers' weapons seems to be a much larger caliber. 10mm vs.8mm (.41 vs. .357). Both shows are shot at Vancouver Film, not Bridge, Studios. There may be some overlap with the prop gurus. -- –DocH– my edits 11:40, 23 June 2011 (MST)