Talk:Olivia
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Henry Higgins
There is a real life Henry Higgins who was a bullfighter 1944-1978. Don't know if this is significant. --Cinderlini 18:15, 24 September 2010 (MST)
- - Was his middle name Arliss? I am sure he was significant (to the bulls).. -- –DocH– my edits 18:59, 24 September 2010 (MST)
- - I assumed they meant to refer to the one in Pygmalion. Which makes me think he might be in on the wager (i.e. in cahoots with Walternate). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HollyHox (talk • contribs) .
Second Observer Sighting
There really is not a thing that can prove the guy in the background at the opera house is an observer. The shot on Torv is so tight that there is no focal clarity behind her. They never do that when they want to highlight a lingering Baldo. Why would he be there anyway? They amber many places around the alt-world. Now Olivia realizing she is screwed without Mass Dyn.... that might be something he'd be around for. 5 4 3 2 1 -- –DocH– my edits 19:08, 24 September 2010 (MST)
- - Dunno. He does look like a typical observer. We may have to wait how this goes. If the series goes on and makes an attempt to show 2 observer sightings then that could be significant (possibly showing that we are dealing with two worlds). Otherwise, have to wait for DVD. -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 23:21, 24 September 2010 (MST)
GeneralRAM
My theory is that there are two sets of observers from both universes. That they are time travelers and highly evolved. Needing spicy food like peppers just as much as the shape shifters need mercury. Which is why one saved Walter Bishop and his son Peter from the car accident to fix the future. The observers have knowledge of all languages and symbols and never repeat them because like the PI constant it too never repeats. Reference the Ancient civilization of MU and Symbols of MU for more on this. I used to have a link to such a web site but lost it due to a hard drive crash.
The second or alternate universe spells English words differently as Olivia's alternate uses the typewriter but spells words differently. Alternate Olivia is in the first universe but in the alternate they implanted memories into Olivia and set up the escape to anger, stress her out, and build up chemicals in the brain to make the memory implants work and have her believe she is the Olivia of that world. Possible the medicine given to her stops her ability to see glowing energy around things in the alternate universe. Alternate Olivia seems to have the same crossing over universe skills as the Olivia in the alternate universe. Yet Walternate tells his staff they have to study the original Olivia to find out how to cross over. If Shape Shifters and Pattern observers cross over universes, then why does Walternate blame Walter for the holes in the universe that keep both apart? Unless Walternate is not sending over Shape Shifters and it is a third alternate universe that invaded his and he blamed the wrong universe just because Walter saved Alternate Pepeter's life and never returned him and raised him as his own? GeneralRAM 20:12, 25 September 2010 (MST)
- - How is it the Bolivia has the same power as Olivia to pass between universes? Bell sent three powerless hitchhikers to this universe with his power. Olivia & Team Cortexiphan used their power to transit and take one hitchhiker with them (Walter) when they first left. –DocH– my edits 22:31, 25 September 2010 (MST)
- - Remember that Dr. Bell worked for Walternate and gave him most if not all his ideas and inventions. Including notes shared with Dr. Bishop that gave Olivia her abilities and Dr. Bell may have done the same experiment with Bolivia. Dr. Bell seems to have that power as well, as he says too many universe travelings can make the human body unstable. He gave up his own body to make the trip back to the original or first universe shown in the TV show. I wrote this note it would be a good idea, I think, to bring Dr. Bell back. Before the switch of Bolivia for Olivia a device may have been used to copy memories, but not personalities and emotional connections. Another theory of mine is that Bolivia will make mistakes to show she isn't Olivia and Peter Bishop might be the one to figure that out after going back to the Fringe division. Just guessing I could be wrong. GeneralRAM 06:28, 26 September 2010 (MST)
- - I don't think there is the idea of third universe. Bell admitted that the shapeshifter is his creation. Although, we don't know yet who is typist on the other side (which I speculated is Nina Sharp), we can be certain that it is from the same parallel universe where Walternate is in. I agree with you that it is quite funny when Walternate blames Walter (and Walter feeling guilty) on the softspots/hole between the two universes, when in fact both of them still don't think twice of poking the universe and create more holes. I guess that's the human nature. There are things that we do that contradict our own belief. -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 23:23, 25 September 2010 (MST)
- - There is more than one of everything, a message repeated throughout the show. I deduce that as not limited to two, but two or more. This is a clue I think and based on my views and opinions that a third universe might exist, Dr. Bell might have traveled here and made the shapeshifters but kept it a secret because he didn't have much time to explain everything so he explain as best he could. Another one is Peter Bishop being given a pen by the Police Woman with the words "Find the crack" on it when Peter Bishop went out after learning he was from an alternative universe. If I am correct on that deduction the Police Woman works for Massive Dynamics and Dr. Bell, etc and gave Peter a clue on how to travel between universes. I wrote this note about it in my user page sand box to let others read and see what they think. But I could be wrong, just guessing. GeneralRAM 06:28, 26 September 2010 (MST)
- - Sure anything can happen, but if they go as far as 3rd or 4th universe, I fear that the producers will stumble upon higher probability of making continuity error. If currently, we have 2 universes and we still have not yet even fully exhausted the storyline of "our universe" (ie, ZFT, John Scott, Agent Jessup, Big Eddie, Olivia's dad, Massive Dynamic, St Claires), how would the producers expect us to understand a 3rd or 4th universe, when it is going to compete with screen time. Also, if there is indeed a 3rd universe, can the producers actually explain why we always travel into the same universe? It is so highly improbable that Bell travelled into the same universe where Walter steal Peter, same universe where Olivia saw the glimpse, same universe where the Monte Carlo went, same universe where Newton brought in the building and the bridge, same universe where the cortexi-kids go to. And same can be said in other way, how did the parallel universe manage to always get through the same (OUR) universe. To make a further point, why Walternate can't just order the shapeshifters to go to the 3rd universe to steal Peter? Sure, Sheriff Mathis can be a MD employee but that is too farfetch at the moment, especially there is no clear indication that she even know that shapeshifters exist; she looks genuinely not know Peter... The "Find the Crack" could be just a tip-off for us, audience, that the crack is a reference to the Opera House crack. It is also not a mystery what Find the Crack means in NW Passage... she clearly explain as to why the pen says "find the crack". -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 10:59, 26 September 2010 (MST)
- - There is more than one of everything, a message repeated throughout the show. I deduce that as not limited to two, but two or more. This is a clue I think and based on my views and opinions that a third universe might exist, Dr. Bell might have traveled here and made the shapeshifters but kept it a secret because he didn't have much time to explain everything so he explain as best he could. Another one is Peter Bishop being given a pen by the Police Woman with the words "Find the crack" on it when Peter Bishop went out after learning he was from an alternative universe. If I am correct on that deduction the Police Woman works for Massive Dynamics and Dr. Bell, etc and gave Peter a clue on how to travel between universes. I wrote this note about it in my user page sand box to let others read and see what they think. But I could be wrong, just guessing. GeneralRAM 06:28, 26 September 2010 (MST)
- Sometimes there is more than one meaning to a word or saying. In Buddhism there is a saying "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." which of course means avoid clinging to emotions and kil or get rid of your emotions to the Buddha.
- As for Walternate did you notice the technology there is different? When Olivia went to the Massive Dynamics office in the Walternate universe earlier the World Trade Center was there as history was different. Olivia knew she was in a different universe but went to an address that was not the World Trade Center. Notice the old time bicycle and blimps and other old technology people use in the Waternate universe. A clue that the Walternate universe may not be as advanced as the original universe, or it could be the third universe in which Walternate went into politics and was not a scientist anymore or never was because Dr. Bell died in a car crash in that universe and the Dr. Bell from the first universe went there and invented technology for Walternate. So that theory might explain why Walternate is not whom we think he is, and thus made war with the first universe because Dr. Walter Bishop from the other universe saved Alternate Peter while his own son died.
- The Waternate of the second or third universe was not as competent as Dr. Walter Bishop and used his own son as an experiment and Walternet wanted him back to find the crack or cracks in his universe to save it and/or travel to the other universe. The shape shfters in my opinion have missions to do that d not involve Peter or harming him in any way as Walternate needs him alive if they do indeed work for Walternet and not some other universe.
- Then again the first universe may have never existed and Olivia was mentally ill and the first universe was a delusion Walternate and Fringe Division tried to cure her of using a new technique and medicine. But notice that Olivia may be playing along with the Fringe run by Walternte and resisted the memory implants after discovering her mother was alive and she had memories of her dying but in the first universe her mother died it, talked and acted differently. ::::Olivia is collecting cues I think and then using the memory implants because she does not fear anything due to Dr. Walter Bishops treatments and experiments on her and Walternate does not know that and if adrenaline or whatever triggers the memory implants to be accepted caused by fear, well Olivia mastered her fear and instead of being afraid she was confused instead but now she caught on.
- I am still going to watch last week's episode again on my DVR and see if I can find anything else. Notice in the first universe Olivia was very good with shooting a gun but talks about not being good with a gun, but Bolivia is good with a gun and won awards, so this is a clue that she resisted the memory implants but can use them to play along and be a double agent for the first universe to spy on the second. Again I had wrote some notes and ideas in my sandbox after tyoing them up earlier on my computer, before and now they can be found here Fan Fiction Fringe I am not saying I am right or it is the truth but my own theories, ideas, opinions, and guesses to what might happen. But then I could be wrong again. It is good to guess and make these theories and ideas. GeneralRAM 23:26, 1 October 2010 (MST)
Differences In Universes
I don't know if this has been brought up, or if this is the right page to bring it up, but I think it might be a good idea to include a small trivia header for the differences between the universes. I understand that Over There, Part 2 had far too many to allow on one page, but since the writers and crew have stated that they will show a lot of the alternate universe this season, it might be beneficial to show the little things that came up in each episode. Much like the glyphs header, we could simply link it to the extended list of differences page so that the casual reader might hop to that to see them all. There were maybe 5 significant differences shown in this episode (guesstimating). I'd find it enjoyable to read about them on each episode page along with a full list as an accompaniment. -- The Atomic Mystro talk contribs 19:18, 24 September 2010 (MST)
- - You have seen → this ← haven't you? -- –DocH– my edits 21:04, 24 September 2010 (MST)
- - Yes. I know of the link. I'm just wondering if we should have a header that links to the page, allowing the episode-current differences to be listed below the header. All the information would be on the main page, but the differences shown in each episode would also be on their respective episode pages. It's just like having the glyphs header. We show each set of glyphs on each episode page, but the header links to the complete list. -- The Atomic Mystro talk contribs 16:30, 25 September 2010 (MST)
- - Well the link to the Parallel Universe page is normally incorporated in the synopsis section. We have had two episodes (222/223) this is the third episode and the Synopsis has not been written to completion yet. My guess is that a well written synopsis will include the link you suggest... currently a Trivia subsection link is not necessary because the parallel universe is not trival - it IS key in the episodes that it appears in. -- –DocH– my edits 16:19, 26 September 2010 (MST)
Senator Van Horn
Will these qualify as UAQ? -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 14:45, 25 September 2010 (MST)
- - Is Senator Van Horn part of the Oversight Committee?
- - What is the purpose of gathering/collecting information from Peter?
- Is Senator Van Horn a member of the Oversight Committee? -- is more approriate, and seems valid.
- Why was a Senator conducting a mission debrief? -- seems more valid -- what is the purpose is vague - obviously the purpose is to "gain knowledge" or insight... why does anyone gather info? -- –DocH– my edits 14:53, 25 September 2010 (MST)
GlatterFlug
I updated the GlatterFlug page, does it need to be place in the Trivia section in here? -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 23:13, 25 September 2010 (MST)
- - I think it's interesting that GlatterFlug's logo is still an airplane. Unless their space shuttles have the proportions of a plane, that would imply that there are some airplanes in addition to the zeppelins we see frequently. --jophan 04:33, 26 September 2010 (MST)
- - Glatterflug had nothing to do with the story presented during Olivia. It is only trivial in the easteregg category in the difference between universes... which has already been covered. –DocH– my edits
Mixed Up Memories as Recurring Theme?
In Season 1, we have Olivia mixing with memories of John Scott as a result of the experimentation in the tank. Now, we have Olivia mixing memories with Bolivia. Will that be a recurring theme? -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 04:52, 26 September 2010 (MST)
- - I would say NO. Olivia was physically plugged into John's recently dead brain when she picked-up all of the vague memories he had. She could only access them in segments and without context. They were not implanted memories. The deal with Bolivia is that the memories appear to be chemical implanted. So a recurring theme would be if Olivia had a synaptic transfer with Bolivia OR Olivia had been chemically implanted with the memories of Scott. Plus, neither the deal with Scott, nor Bolivia, seems to be experimentation - Walter knew how to work a synaptic transfer AND Secretary Bishop kmows how to chemically implant memories... neither seem "experimental". -- –DocH– my edits 16:10, 26 September 2010 (MST)
Question
sorry for posting this in the wrong place but... I can't remember from last season if Peter knows it's Bolivia who came back with them? Also where would be a better place for me to post questions like this? --Lizziejj 17:52, 28 September 2010 (MST)
- - Sokay. Seems like this is a good enough place to ask, seeing that the very last thing we saw last week were those two smooching. As far as we know, not the Bishops, or anyone, in this universe knows that Bolivia snuck back with the team (yet). Walternate, Col Broyles, Brandon, Lee and Francis from the parallel universe, all seem to be aware of it now though. -- –DocH– my edits 18:28, 28 September 2010 (MST)
- Well yes; however, Bolivia asked Walter if he was bringing them back. The Wallabe shoes. His visits to the parallel universe learned about the shoes or else he said Wallabe because in the first universe no so name exists and Bolivia gave herself away. Peter kissed Bolivia but remember he was not that emotionally attached to her yet to figure it out. Also the psychiatrist was asking Peter why he came back and did not stay in the other universe and the pen ran out of ink or so the doctor claimed and Peter said he knew a trick to fix it, and the doctor said he didn't need to, which is another clue that Peter knew he was trying to be tricked. Remember that Oliva's love interest was her ex-partner who died after a shape shifter killed him, and was more than a friend to her.
- So she thanked him for being a friend and if he was the real one he would know they are more than friends based on the earlier episodes. But I could be wrong. Another theory that I have is that Peter and Walter expected a switch of Bolivia for Olivia and had this test to see if she was Olivia or Bolivia.
- If the Wallabe shoes are from the other universe the real Olivia would see the light or energy around them. Also User:GeneralRAM/Opening Credit Clues|Here s a list of symbols and words from last week's Fringe. I hope I got them all, as they are clues, please let me know if I missed any. I suspect they represent numbers, words, or letters and create some type of code. The frog with the Greek letter Phi, but Frog Phi or Phi Frog makes no sense. However, it is the 12th letter in the Greek Alphabet. Wikipedia Entry on Phi can mean a lot of different things. I could be wrong about that. GeneralRAM 00:33, 2 October 2010 (MST)
Continuity Error ?
I check the transcript for Over There Part I, and Frank is supposed to be away for a week. Check the transcript here and Lincoln place the episode 3 days after the Over There Part II. -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 00:37, 1 October 2010 (MST)
- - Lee said he was enjoying ice cream 3 days ago. He could have been in rehab for weeks. 3 days since the psychotic break was revealed to him. He wasn't in OTpt2, just OTpt1. Brandon and Walternate sounded like they have been trying for weeks to dose her memories. Frank... sometimes a week long business trip is done in a few days (been there done that) OR some folks refer to a five-day business week as a week, AND if a loved one is having a hard time at home, sometimes you cut your week long trip short - to just a few days and come home early. I don't see a continuity error, just a little room for slop. - –DocH– my edits 01:24, 1 October 2010 (MST)
- - Thanks for clarifying. The time gap between Over There and Olivia is confusing. Looks like they didn't give out exactly the time in between. -- Xerophytes Talk | Contribs 01:30, 1 October 2010 (MST)
Interesting Casting
Andre Royo (the actor who played taxi driver Henry Higgins), is perhaps best known for playing the character "Bubbles" on HBO's The Wire for several seasons. The main cast of that show also included Lance Reddick (our Agent Broyles).
